Undercover Hippie

Steamed!

posted Mon, 05-02-05

I had the most infuriating conversation with my father yesterday, and it is still bothering me. My father is a conservative doctor, and out of every medical or parenting issue we've ever discussed we pretty much agree on only one topic, and that is the over-treatment of ear infections. Thank goodness there is at least one topic we can discuss and agree on, because ever since I decided to be a mom rather than pursue a big career, we really have nothing else to talk about. So this conversation actually started out as a fairly nice conversation about a new Scandinavian study showing no difference between the treatment of acute otitis media (ear infections) with augmentin versus a placebo. Then we began dissecting why it takes so long for research to trickle down into the actual treatment practices and that's where I did it--I used as a parallel the fact that research has shown that continuous electronic fetal monitoring does not protect against birth injury, yet in every hospital women are still being hooked up to EFMs for the duration of their labor.

I should interject here that my father and I do not talk about birth. At all. We especially do not talk about my birthing choices or how he feels about them. I did not inform him of our homebirth plans because I was not interested in debating my choice (a very thoroughly researched choice, I might add) so instead he found out when he saw the birth announcement. Once, years ago, we discussed the book Midwives and he expressed his opinion that homebirthing was irresponsible and asked why any sensible person would put themselves and their child at risk by depriving themselves of all that modern technology has to offer. I tried to raise alternative viewpoints and when he wouldn't even consider them I decided that it was not worth trying to discuss birth with him ever again, and I haven't.

So why I had to bring up the use of EFM in labor, I don't know. In fact, when I called my sister later to complain that our father was an ass, she said "Well, what did you expect, bringing up birth with Dad? What were you thinking?"

But I digress. I brought it up as a simple example, and he had to respond with, "Well, but why not use EFM in labor? It's not hurting anything. There's no reason not to do it. I'd want any wife of mine to be monitored throughout labor." So I tried to explain the whole cycle, that actually by confining a woman to bed, EFM can be harmful because it may lead to a need for other interventions which are more dangerous. It was all downhill from there. I got to hear about how he's been on an obstetrical rotation (my mom is quick to remind me that it was one rotation, where he delivered one baby, about 28 years ago) and things can go from fine to dead baby in 10 minutes and you need the constant monitoring and besides that the hospitals have to have the EFM because if they don't and they get sued they will lose, period. So I argued back with the studies that have shown that intermittent monitoring by qualified people is just as effective and that you can't tell me that a tracing by a machine that is being monitored by a nurse down the hall can ever replace the constant one-on-one presence of a skilled midwife who is checking baby, watching mom's body language, etc. He told me that actually, he does think a machine can do a better job. And that in a crisis situation, time matters and there is a huge difference between getting a baby out in 10 minutes versus 15 minutes. And also, that even a free-standing birth center across the street from a hospital is too far because you need to be in a hospital where you are only 30 feet from the c-section room. And then he topped it all off with, "That's why I think midwives should be put in jail, and parents who choose homebirth are criminally negligent." 

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WTF????????????????????????????????????????

I am still aghast at that statement. I have been through so many emotions but I still can't process that level of... hate? ignorance? bigotry? narrow-mindedness? I don't even have a word for it. Derek says I should have hung up on him but somehow I used the kids as an excuse to get off the phone. First I was frazzled, then angry as I thought of all the things I should have said. Then it made me want to have a few more babes at home just to piss him off, and go ahead and become a midwife just so I could vicariously piss him off more each time he had to tell someone what his daughter did for a living. Then I settled down and remembered that he's an ass, but that somewhere deep inside I'm sure he was trying to tell me he didn't think I was making safe choices and he was worried because he cares. And I rationalized that really, I always expected him to say negative things about our homebirth and he had shown a great deal of restraint by keeping that opinion to himself for nearly a year already. So I tried to let it go but that didn't work so well. I keep coming back to a few points:

How can someone who has always believed that certain interventions were being overused unnecessarily in his own profession be so unwilling to consider that this is true of obstetrical interventions as well? And how can someone who is constantly citing the most current research in his field be utterly dismissive of the research I brought up? And why, for once, can he not appreciate that this is my passion, this is an area I know a *lot* about so I might have a valid point? Strangely, the implication that Derek and I made a criminal choice is not bothering me all that much (although it has my husband fuming) because I think that was probably not how he meant for it to come out. But the fact that he won't listen to me, won't consider another point of view, won't admit for once that he might not know everything... I think that's what hit me the hardest. He has always been this way, and I've never really seen the point of debating with him. But this time... I really think this is a turning point, because I just cannot take this. I am not letting this one go. I am calling him on this one, dammit. 

So, any thoughts or ideas are appreciated. I've thought of and discarded a lot of plans, but I know I cannot call him up and try to talk to him about it again. Speaking to him in person intimidates me, and I will lose track of my facts and he'll just run me over. So I'm working on a letter, and I actually hope maybe we can just begin a dialogue that way. I also think I'm going to send him a copy of Henci Goer's Obstetric Myths versus Research Realities for good measure (so if anyone has a used copy for cheap...) but the more I think about it, this really isn't about birth anymore. As I've been writing this I've lost some of the anger and indignation and instead, I find myself feeling that this is a crossroads, and how I approach it might mean the difference between a continuation of this pseudo-relationship we have now and a real relationship where he respects who I have become since I have left his expected path and traveled my own. You can probably sense that there's a lot of water under this bridge, can't you? Is it too much to think we can ever get to the other side intact?




1. a reader left...
Mon, 05-02-05 2:38 am

Yowza. I thought it was bad when my mom's friends ganged up on me, but this is soooo much worse.

I don't have any advice off the top of my head--I know you know your stuff and can probably shoot off as good an explanation for what's wrong with "all that modern technology has to offer" as anyone. I think a letter is a fabulous plan--I'd love to read it when you're done.

Sorry that I'm being less than helpful.

Amy F [amyrobynne@gmail.com]


Amy-

I *think* we already e-mailed about this but I'd better reply here too, LOL. I never did write that letter, or send him the book... I lost steam and just let it go as best I could. I'm sure it will come up again someday, and I've thought of what I will say. Maybe I'll process it all someday and write another entry. :)

Tara


2. Sarah left...
Mon, 05-02-05 12:26 pm

I was telling my husband about your entry and his advice is this: It's not so much a crossroads for you as it is for him - he probably feels the way he does because of some traumatic or disturbing experience, and so no amount of logic, or rational proof is likely to concvince him of anything. You also had a slightly bad experience in the hospital, and are not likely to ever see his point of view. Maybe the best idea is to leave the issue and others like it. The goal is not to agree, but to get behind it to the human side. Maybe it's not as important to make him agree as it is to see what's good about him or where is opinion is coming from - he seems to be very sensitive to the tragedy of losing a baby during delivery. I want to add as well that sometimes what we expect to be turning points don't turn out as well as expected. I've often wanted to turn over a new leaf and have a closer relationship with my father (who I think may also be disappointed in my decisions), and he's either not interested or doesn't see the issue of our relationship the same way as I do. I hope I;m not being too negative, I've just been disappointed a few times too many...


Hi Sarah-
Thanks for helping me think of the other side. I really appreciate your comments. I am honestly not sure why my dad is so set on this issue... I don't know of any reason he would be taking this personally and I've been assuming it was because he is just so medicalized that he can't see the other side. And also, since he is always like this, I didn't give it much deeper thought. I mean, he is a person who would argue with you all day that the sky was green, you know? So I have always tried to leave this subject alone, and parenting subjects too. But I am going to give it some deeper thought. Unfortunately it will probably be one-sided. I don't know if he is interested in getting to a deeper level and understanding our respective human feelings underneath; I suspect he is more interested in being right.

Honestly, I really want to understand him and have tried but I never can get through. My sisters and I all feel frustrated and let down by him in many ways... maybe there is just too much crap to get through and we'll never succeed. I thought I gave up long ago on having a real "fatherly" relationship with him but obviously I didn't since he can still get to me. Unfortunately when you said, " I've often wanted to turn over a new leaf and have a closer relationship with my father (who I think may also be disappointed in my decisions), and he's either not interested or doesn't see the issue of our relationship the same way as I do." you are probably completely on target.

Anyway, thank you for your thoughts. It is good to be reminded of the flip side and that I am not alone in this.

Tara


3. a reader left...
Tue, 05-03-05 9:24 pm

Hi Tara,

Gosh, what a harsh conversation/statement. You know your stuff and I just don't see how you can make him "change" his mind in such a short time period. I love the comments Sarah made as it does make sense. The only real negative comment made when I was planning my homebirth with William was when it was determined he was breech. My grandmother called me to say that I was going to kill my baby and myself. I basically hung up on her and amazingly enough, when I talked to her last week about me starting my midwifery apprenticeship, she was real excited about it.

No advice here, but I hope you can heal from such comments made to you.

Sherry
Mama to William & Quinn

PS Happy Birthday Lily

Sherry [babymakesthree2001@yahoo.com]


Sherry-

Well, I am awfully slow in responding to you but I appreciated your words of support. That meant a lot to me. I doubt my dad will ever change his tune but I'm glad your grandmother did. And you are starting a midwifery apprenticeship... that is so awesome! I would love to hear all about it, please e-mail me if you have a chance... PLEASE! LOL.

Tara


4. a reader left...
Sun, 05-08-05 10:19 pm

Hey Tara-

Just found your blog. Wow. That is real sad about your dad. I am not very close with my parents, either, and I can totally relate to your story. It's something I could easily see happening in my family. I agree with what Sarah said, and I don't know what advice I could give you. I just wanted you to know you're not alone. Unfortunately, you can't change everyone... Sigh. (Wouldn't it be nice, though?) :wink:

Lots of love to you!

Take care, sweetie,
Jennifer

Jennifer S


Jennifer-

It is wonderful to know I am not alone in this... and yet it makes me sad to see there are so many other people struggling with their parents too. I hate to think that could ever happen with me and my kids. :( But that's why we're AP'ing, right... so we are in tune with them and don't make asses of ourselves later? ;)

Tara


5. a reader left...
Sun, 05-08-05 10:22 pm

P.S. I just saw that you linked to my diary- yay! I haven't updated in a while b/c RETARDED iParenting won't send me my lost password! UGH! I SO should just get a blog. Sad, isn't it? I remember when that place was really a lot of fun. Oh well...

Jennifer S


Jennifer-

And now you have a blog! It is great. :)

Tara